Hacking Trial Live Tweets – 8 Apr

Tuesday 8 April 2014

Summary
	Mr Justice Saunders – Order of Proceedings
		Defendant Mark Hanna to be followed by Stuart Kuttner
	Defence Admissions for Mark Hanna
		Counsel for Hanna reads admissions
	The Defence of Stuart Kuttner Begins
		Jonathan Caplan QC Introduces the Defence Case for Stuart Kuttner
		Stuart Kuttner’s recent Medical History
		Stuart Kuttner answers questions on his Career in Journalism
		Kuttner joins News of the World
		Kuttner’s Role as Managing Editor
		Member of Press Council
		Kuttner’s Contract with the News of the World
		Kuttner is asked for his view of other members of staff at NOTW
		Kuttner questioned on Contributor Payment Requests
		Limit of Payments and Levels of Authorisation
		Cash Payments
		Goodman Payments 2005
		Goodman’s Confidential Source and Alexander Payments
		Kuttner’s work on Budget Setting
		Attempts to cut Nine Consultancy Budget
		Editorial Budget
	Mr Justice Saunders Reviews the Position of the Trial
		Clive Goodman expected to return in May

Mr Justice Saunders – Order of Proceedings
	Defendant Mark Hanna to be followed by Stuart Kuttner
		Back at the #hackingtrial with the former managing editor of News of the World Stuart Kuttner
		First Justice Saunders explains to the jury that Clive Goodman is still not fit: before that Hanna has some admissions to complete his case
		Justice Saunders explains there will be slightly reduced hours for Stuart Kuttner who has also been unwell: his case should last for 4 days
Defence Admissions for Mark Hanna
	Counsel for Hanna reads admissions
		William Clegg QC hands out the admissions on Mark Hanna’s case for the jury bundles.
		Hanna admissions include transporting “a bag” from Jubilee Barn so that police would not be aware of them.
		Hanna admissions say Lee Sandell accompanied Hanna when Charlie’s bag was taken to London.
		The Hanna admissions cover the recovery of the bags by the cleaner and staff at Thames Quay, and the devices and DVDs
		01/07/13 the prosecution disclosed to the defence an email 14/05/12 Kathleen Harris email to police over day shift of concierge team.
		Marva Ingram was revealed in the email to be part of the concierge team on that Sunday in July 2011 – she was on duty that day
		Kathleen Harris, Clegg explains, is a solicitor working for News International. 08/10/13 Prosecution disclosed Marva Ingram’s phone number
		Hanna admissions included the Mark Hanna phone calls to various NI staff as an agreed document.
		Admissions concede that Jorsling ordered a pizza took 606 sec to cook (Clegg erroneously said 6006 secs – Saunders said “overcooked”)
The Defence of Stuart Kuttner Begins
	Jonathan Caplan QC Introduces the Defence Case for Stuart Kuttner
		Kuttner is sworn in. He is questioned by his counsel, Jonathan Caplan QC. He has only one bundle for the jury and his client.
		Caplan reminds the jury of Kuttner’s single charge on count one – 2000-2006 conspiracy to intercept phone message. No misconduct charge
		Kuttner is 74. He has no previous convictions. He retired from NI in September 2009. Kuttner confirms all this.
	Stuart Kuttner’s recent Medical History
		Caplan explains that Kuttner has suffered medical episodes: in March 2010 a heart attack and a brain stem stroke.
		In March 2011, just before his arrest, Kuttner suffered another heart attack in the US. Caplan will deal with the mental consequences later
		Kuttner confirms that he has received “daily reports he’s endeavoured to read” and has appreciated he hasn’t been obliged to attend everyday
	Stuart Kuttner answers questions on his Career in Journalism
		From 1987 to 2009, Kuttner confirms he was managing editor of News of the World.
		Kuttner says there were approximately “12 or 15″ editors” “Editors came and went at News of the World,’ he tells jury.
		Kuttner began at the Stoke Newington and Hackney Observer” “as a very young reporter… 16”. He then went to the People.
		Kuttner was at the Evening Standard for many years : his “formative editor” was Charles Wintour : he became a top reporter.
		Kuttner covered many of the leading stories of the 60s and 70s. Caplan summarises some of them: Kuttner traced and interviewed Stephen Ward
		Kuttner also interview Mandy Rice Davies. He accompanied police on Saddleworth Moor during the Moors Murders
		Kuttner says he was among the “cohort of distinguished journalists” who covered the Moors Murders.
		Kuttner also covered the General’s coup in Greece, the Paris Riots, and the alleged plot to murder Norman Scott and Jeremy Thorpe scandal
		Kuttner liaised with the DPP over the Norman Scott affair. He left Evening Standard briefly and then returned at news editor
	Kuttner joins News of the World
		In 1980 Kuttner joined NOTW as an assistant editor: to “bolster the editorial strength of the newspaper” he says.
		In 1986 Kuttner was seconded to management during the Wapping dispute to liaise with police “especially on Wednesdays and Saturdays”
		“During the rather unpleasant Wapping Riots” says Kuttner, he was a liaison with police. In 1987 promoted to Managing Editor of NOTW.
		Kuttner says promotion was a “significant changes… to provide a bridge between journalists… and managment”
		“Controlling and maintaining editorial expenditure” says Kuttner, was his main role.
		“As I explained to the police every Managing Editor carved his or her role” says Kuttner: “I didn’t forsake the journalism”
		But, Kuttner says, the majority of his time spend on management. He would be the liaison person on big stories with politicians and police.
		“Rewards in particular crime cases” Kuttner says was his responsibility, as well as writing “the majority of leaders” at NOTW.
		“Very occasionally…if that particular story chimed with the philosophy of the paper” Kuttner says he would be involved in breaking stories
		“Managing editor is something of a misnomer… predecessor was ‘editorial manager’ says Kuttner – a better description.
		Kuttner says the editor was responsible for the paper: departmentally desk heads would offer “raw material” to the editor.
	Kuttner’s Role as Managing Editor
		On the finance side Kuttner says his role was to “bring in the paper within or beneath the annual budget”
		On cash payments, Kuttner says “a very few payments… made in cash. A small minority…. it was my task to approve to cash payments”
		A “significant” part of Kuttner’s work was to sign off contributor’s payments.
		Kuttner: “In essence the managing editors… oversee and approve – or sometimes disapprove – expenditure for all aspects of the newspaper”
		“Invoices, studio costs, travel expenses claims”: Kuttner says he was responsible for all the editorial costs at NOTW.
		Kuttner says the “reviewing process” was quite fast but it was the major part of editor works. Items include “Thousands per week”
		“Slightly to the irritation of my wife” says Kuttner, he brought work home. “Happens to all of us” says Justice Saunders.
		Kuttner “The culture in newspapers… is one of trust. You trust the people who bring in the stories. You trust the people who provide docs”
		“Until the matters that brought us here, as far as I know I was never let down” says Kuttner of his trust of other staff at NOTW.
		“I liaised with HR about new appointments, potential dismissals, disciplinary matters’ says Stuart Kuttner, former NOTW managing editor
		Kuttner speaks of liaising with police: “my own network of contacts in politics, in police, in other spheres… it fell to me”
		“Almost an ambassadorial role, or go between… from the Prime Minister upwards or downwards” says Kuttner of his liaison role.
		Kuttner often appeared on radio or television representing the newspaper on particular stories.
		One of Kuttner’s other roles as managing editor was to contact PCC: “if the newspaper was considering publishing a contentious story”
		Pre publication of a story, Kuttner would run it past the PCC “on a confidential basis… occasionally”
		If the NOTW received a complaint through the PCC, one of Kuttner’s duties was to “deal with it without a formal adjudication”
		Kuttner describes his PCC role as “putting up the case for the defence”.
		“For many years” Kuttner was a trustee of substantial NOTW pension fund.
		“When I freed myself to do so” Kuttner would attend NOTW editorial conferences” “maintained a link… to journalism”
		“I was particularly interested if I could gain some idea of the cost of the stories” says Kuttner of editorial meetings.
		Most importantly, Kuttner would get ideas for the leaders each week by attending editorial conferences.
		Kuttner speaks of the setting up of Sarah’s Law after the murder and abduction of Sarah Payne.
		“I thought it was an inspired idea of Rebekah Brooks, supported by Andy Coulson” Kuttner says of Sarah’s Law.
		“Vigilante activity was of potential concern” says Kuttner of Sarah’s Law: he wrote a ‘second clause’ with serious penalties.
		“The outcome I think has been…. very successful… we achieved 14 out of 15 pieces of legislation” says Kuttner of Sarah’s Law
		Kuttner has sat on the D-Notice Committee – not the DA Notice Committee – covering “security sensitive information”
		“It sounds like quite a long litany…. I was dedicated to newspapers. NOTW was the centre of my life.” says Kuttner of his various roles.
	Member of Press Council
		“In its latter days I was a member of the Press Council” says Kuttner of PCC predecessor. He contributed to the PCC editor’s code.
		“When the PCC succeeded the Press Council as a beefed up body” the chair happened to editor of NOTW. Kuttner assisted drafting code.
		After the death of the Princess Diana in 1997, and “alleged participation of paparazzi” Kuttner was involved in redrafting editor’s code.
		Kuttner also liaised Guy Black when he was head of the PCC
		Jonathan Caplan QC turns to the Code of Practice as it was in 1999 and a box about the Public Interest.
		“If a particular story can be justified in the public interest” says PCC 1999 code of “engaging in practices outside the code”
		Kuttner says “I can’t recall… I may be wrong… ever being asked about that” in regards to the Public Interest Defence in PCC code.
		Caplan cites a NOTW editor’s letter in 2007 around the time of the Goodman/Mulcaire sentencing about cash payments etc.
		Though it’s a letter from NOTW editor, Colin Myler, this email on PCC code and law is sent out from Stuart Kuttner.
		“I can only imagine that Colin Myler… had asked me to look over his letter, or perhaps make adjustments to the letter” says Kuttner.
	Kuttner’s Contract with the News of the World
		Kuttner is shown a contract between himself and NI 19/03/05-30/06/07: the day after his 65th birthday. Caplan: “the only contract we have”
		Kuttner says he did have a previous contract with NI in the 1990s.
		The 2005 contract between Kuttner and NOTW does not set out any duties for his role of managing editor.
		“I don’t recall duties being listed in a contract” says Kuttner; “It would have been quite difficult because of the spread of things”
		Caplan cites some 2009 correspondence between Kuttner and Myler over going over to a part time job.
		May 2009 Kuttner letter to Myler details his roles in budgets, pensions, PR, Sarah’s Law, and a “network of contacts across a wide range”
		Kuttner agrees his letter of 2009 is “fair and compact summary” of the role of managing editor.
	Kuttner is asked for his view of other members of staff at NOTW
		Caplan asks for “brief” comments on others in the case from Kuttner
		Kuttner says: “Rebekah Brooks… was a long time colleague of mine. I noticed in a report that she spoke of generation gap. That’s true”
		“I admire her. I think she’s a very dedicated and ambitious newspaperwoman. She’s intuitive” Kuttner says of Brooks.
		“She doesn’t need me to do her PR. But she supported a friend of ours who was very gravely ill” Kuttner says of Brooks.
		“Probably two occasions… maybe three…. in many years” says Kuttner in terms of his rare social meetings with Brooks.
		Kuttner describes his relationship with Coulson as “professional… focused. It’s important that an editor and managing editor get along”
		“A very focused and balanced newspaper man – I like him” says Kuttner of Coulson. Only met socially on two occasions, a rare lunch.
		On Greg Miskiw, Kuttner says “he didn’t impact much on me… though a news editor at engine room at newspaper… don’t think we clicked”
		“He enjoyed my trust” says Kuttner of Miskiw: “I did not have any reason not to trust him”.
		“I didn’t have any reason to distrust him” says Kuttner of Weatherup: “H seemed a little laid back, not hungry enough”
		Kuttner describes Thurlbeck as “focused, tenacious, a man the paper could rely on to haul in a story”
		“In his place, Rebekah and I travelled to Paris to procure a story, and the Eurostar was delayed 17 hours” says Kuttner on Goodman.
		“I think Clive was an enigma” says Kuttner on Goodman: “Rebekah will remember this. He didn’t want to go out on stories”
		Kuttner speaks of other senior NI staff who cannot be named for legal reasons.
		BREAKING: Kuttner “I have no recollection of any dealings with Glenn Mulcaire… as far as I know I’ve only seen him in dock at court”
		15 minute break
		Back with Kuttner, questioned by his counsel Jonathan Caplan QC, with a further question about managing editor’s office.
		Kuttner confirms a list of people involved in Managing Editor’s office over the period concerned: Kent, Nicholas, Stokes, Morgan, McCall
		The last two – Morgan and McCall – had a separate office on the editorial floor.
	Kuttner questioned on Contributor Payment Requests
		Caplan outlines the scope of his evidence: contributors payments, authority limits, cash payments, annual budget.
		The next topic will be the Mulcaire Contracts: then Milly Dowler story in April 2002: Blunkett and Hoggatt 2004: 2006 arrests
		Caplan will then go to 2009 and Kuttner’s retirement, followed by Kuttner’s arrest in 2011 and the police interviews.
		The first topic Caplan wants to explore are the “procedural elements related to these proceedings”: he turns to contributor payments CPRs
		Caplan goes through the CPR process: “normally approved…. by desk head or his or her deputy” says Kuttner of authorisation.
		Kuttner says the Managing Editor’s role is a “collation… to keep an overall eye on the quantum… amount of payments… in reporting up”
		Kuttner says his role on CPRs wouldn’t be “to check each one out”. Would only query for payments in excess of “notified costs”
		“Might is too weak a word” says Kuttner: “without a sound justification I would challenge it” says CPRs that exceeded estimate.
		“I would go… is this a mistake. If the answer is no, I would say you didn’t inform me of that. We’re not going to haggle” says Kuttner
		Kuttner says of computerisation 1) More difficult to see on screen and 2) It took very much longer to sign off individual credits.
		Because of problems with computers, Kuttner gave desks heads an ability to sign up to £2k. Computerisation happened around 2005
		“It suited the IT people, it suited the company, but it didn’t suit me” says Kuttner of computerisation of contributor payments.
		Kuttner: “My view is that anyone who contributed…. to the content of the paper. Columnist… tip off… inquiry agents” were contributors.
		Kuttner says that information with a “view to publication” was a contributor
		Kuttner talks about Derek Webb “who had a reputation for finding people and surveillance”. He describes him as an ‘Inquiry Agent’
		Kuttner explains ‘latter version’ of CPRs (6 entry version) for Derek Webb created by Morgan, with departmental and executive authorisation
		“He’d been engaged in what I would term ‘editorial activities'” says Kuttner of contributor payments to Derek Webb.
		August 2001 document from Kuttner to NOTW staff about full time contributors switching to ‘casual dockets’ under HMRC new Tax and NI laws
		Caplan asks about Nine Consultancy or Euro Research falling under the HMRC rules: Kuttner thought this applied to individual staffers.
		Kuttner says he “doesn’t believe” an employer has a NI responsibility to another company – like Mulcaire’s
	Limit of Payments and Levels of Authorisation
		Caplan turns to the 2001 limits of payments for news desk heads, and the need for executive authority.
		May 2001 NOTW email cited from Kuttner to various deskheads (including Simon Greenberg head of Sport) about weekly spending limits
		“Prior approval must be authorised by the editor” says 2001 Kuttner circular to NOTW for anything over weekly variable costs.
		“The desk head had discretion” says Kuttner: “It was his or her money. If she or he wanted to spend on 6 major stories, or 25 lesser”
		Caplan cites the Miskiw Mulcaire contract in 2001 for £7.5k for ‘first option’ on the Bulger story. Brooks responds “I hope you can afford”
		“If you’re over you won’t be paid” writes Brooks to Miskiw. Kuttner says “If Miskiw… was head of dept at the time… had authority”
		Kuttner laughs when Caplan tells him it’s probably best not to speculate.
		05/06/01 email from Brooks to desk heads at NOTW, just before budget kicks in, “reiterates” the new budget plan, weekly limits.
		“It really will be like running your own business” write Brooks to desk heads in 2001. “That was the empowerment I sought” says Kuttner
		Kuttner mentions a “second consideration” on weekly limits: “It’s reasonable to expect value for money, there had to be some….”
		Caplan cuts Kuttner off short: “assuming there’s some” on value for money. “Then yes’ says Kuttner of desk head autonomy.
		April 2002 email from Kuttner asks for £2k plus weekly spends from desk heads. “I wanted to know… what the totality was” for stories.
		Kuttner says he knew about “regular spends… they were in my mind”: the query was about “irregular spends”.
		Kuttner says he would send the editor the costs of that particular weekend’s paper so they would know “broadly how the paper stood”
		Kuttner says weekly costings of NOTW would help decide “if we run X story, we can’t run Y story”
		Kuttner says his spending limit was “items up to £50k”. “Particularly expensive items… myself or editor would alert managing director”
		Kuttner says the “Response’ to upwards plus £50k referral “was generally: ‘It’s your budget, can you afford it?’
		Kuttner says of a contract above 50k “I don’t believe I needed to go up the chain of authority”
		Kuttner might cite annual contract costs when “outlining possible budgets for year ahead” cites Michael Winner, William Hague, 9 Consultancy
		Caplan asks about the contract for Late Michael Winner: Kuttner says he would need to research the figure, “but others substantially more”
		Kuttner says he or the editor “may have mentioned in passing” contracts in excess of £50k, but it wasn’t a formal procedure.
	Cash Payments
		Caplan asks Kuttner about cash payments: generally signed off by department heads or other editors.
		“To approve it if I was happy” says Kuttner of his role in cash payments at NOTW.
		Kuttner says it wasn’t his role to investigate circumstances in which cash payments were made.
		“I saw cash payments as an alternative to CPR payments” says Kuttner. He sometimes queried amounts depending on amount and size of story.
		“I might challenged the journalist concerned” says Kuttner of some cash payments: “This does not look like value of money to me
		Caplan cites May 2005 discussion between Goodman and Kuttner on reduction of fees for Blackadder leads: mentions ‘palace security’ story
		“That’s exactly what I was telling you about” says Kuttner of challenging Goodman’s payments for his Blackadder column
		01/07/05 Kuttner emails Goodman, copied to other desk heads, talking about cash payments and “cutting these back to an absolute minimum”
		“I felt quite a number of Mr Goodman’s demands for cash payments were excessive” says Kuttner: “in terms of sums sought”
		Kuttner says cash payments didn’t require the name and address of payee on the front of the form: confidentiality allowed ‘infrequently’
		Kuttner “most certainly did not” ask journalists to provide a false name and address for confidential cash payments.
		Kuttner says to Caplan: “I know you’re my counsel, but the suggestion of deliberate falsification I want to reject”
		Kuttner confirms a ‘latter format’ of a cash payment form – for one of the Alexander payments to Glenn Mulcaire: marked ‘confidential NOTW’
		“Bizarrely it also contains a name” notes Kuttner. It mentions Alexander on this cash payment.
		Kuttner doesn’t recognise the executive authorisation for this Alexander payment to Glenn Mulcaire: but it says approved by managing editor
		Longer lunchtime because of Kuttner’s medical condition. Back at 2pm
		Great to finally meet my ace collaborator and tweet compiler @JonLippitt at the Old Bailey today. Selfie coming soon http://www.fothom.wordpress.com
		Back after lunch at the #hackingtrial – Stuart Kuttner, former Managing Editor of the NOTW, in the witness box.
	Goodman Payments 2005
		Jonathan Caplan QC continues with the subject of cash payments – and turns to some 2005 documents between Goodman, Weatherup and Kuttner
		01/07/05 email from Goodman to Bev Stokes chasing up some cash payments. References a proposed chat with Kuttner.
		“Only three people I ever pay in cash… 3 in uniform…. you, me and the editor would end up in jail” says Goodman email.
		The fourth cash payment, Goodman writes, is for a newspaper executive who faces “life altering” events if exposed.
		The Goodman/Stokes email also talks about sending a previous email to Kuttner. He has no memory of any email like this.
		“Clive Goodman. I say this with some reluctance, had a habit of bombarding people with emails” says Kuttner. But he can’t remember these
		Another string of emails between Goodman on ‘creds’ and Weatherup cited by Caplan: 27/12/05 about Prince Michael and payments
		“Through the books I suppose” writes Weatherup. “No” replies Goodman “confidential payments. Weatherup says SK knows ‘protected list’ source
		Caplan stresses that these aren’t emails to Kuttner but about him needing “details of cash payments” by Weatherup.
		Kuttner says Weatherup has got procedure wrong: no need for name and address on confidential payments.
	Goodman’s Confidential Source and Alexander Payments
		Weatherup email talks about a “massive clampdown” on cash payments. Goodman says Kuttner “knows the man very well… protected”
		Kuttner denies knowing the identity of Goodman confidential source and says this is just part of his “email bombardment”
		Kuttner says he doesn’t know of any “protected list” – individual journalists would have their own confidential sources.
		29/12/05 Kuttner emails the desk heads, editorial accountants and contributions people
		The 29/12/05 email says “cash payments kept to a minimum and will be an exception… compelling justification… details comprehensive”
		Kuttner 29/12/05 email says a “compelling justification” and accompanying memo must be given for cash payments
		Kuttner says his concern in 2005 was over the ‘volume’ of cash payments, and individual figures seemed ‘excessive’
		The new rules came into force in early 2006. Caplan points out Alexander payments to Mulcaire began late in 2005
		Kaplan looks at 06/01/06 Alexander payment for 5500 to ‘confidential contributor’ (actually Mulcaire) with memo from Goodman explaining
		“It’s a relatively scant version, but it is in compliance” says Kuttner of Goodman memo
		“I took a view that a newspaper will have confidential sources, and the staff of the newspaper should be trusted” says Kuttner of payments
		Feb 2006 payment for £2k cited, editor email to Kuttner, confirming bona fides of confidential source: Kuttner “I would not have hesitated”
		Kuttner looks at the Goodman ‘Farish and Anderson’ payments 2001-06. He recollects police or solicitors asks him to dig these out.
		Kuttner says his recollection is that these names were first drawn to his attention after arrest of Goodman: no memory before 2006
		Caplan turns to the Count 2 misconduct charges Goodman and Coulson face for acquiring the two Royal Directories from Farish
		Kuttner shown the payment documents for the Royal Green Books and ITDs. Email from Goodman to Coulson and standard price
		“I had a hell of a time getting cash creds out of Stuart… these people will not be paid in anything other than cash… criminal charges”
		“If Clive Goodman came to me asking to sign any document.. paying a police officer, I’d tell him to clear off” says Kuttner to #hackingtrial
		“A life in newspapers” says Kuttner: “the idea I’d like some money to bribe a policeman… is absolutely false”
		Caplan turns to a payment request from Goodman for Farish with a false address: he confirms his signature but knows nothing of Farish.
		Farish payment is for “Royal Research” – Kuttner says he would have made no investigation into the source of story.
		Caplan turns to second Count 2 document, for £1000 to Farish, signed off by Kuttner. No idea “whatsoever” of what royal research means.
		Goodman email about a “deliberately cryptic payment record” for Kuttner cited by Caplan. Kuttner has no recollection of this.
		“I have no recollection… maybe it’s my old fashioned way, butI would have rejected it out of hand” says Kuttner of paying police officers
		Another confidential payment for Anderson for £1k in June 2005 cited: Kaplan confirms his PA Bev Stokes’ signature.
		Kuttner has no recollection of this payment either, but Stokes would have signed it “with my authority”
		“Still in 2005” Caplan takes Kuttner back to an email exchange between Paul Nicholas and another editor over cash payments for Blackadder
		Nicholas talks about “a very few” of Goodman’s sources need to be “protected”requiring Goodman to get more free stories and non cash sources
		Stuart Kuttner says Paul Nicholas was probably deputy managing editor in 2005.
		24/08/05 Goodman replies to Nicholas, copying in Kuttner about his “three protected sources”
		Goodman email cc’ing Kuttner says he’s not going to put it in writing, but any audit trail will put them “all in jail”
		Kuttner says he has no recollection of this “put us all in jail” email from Goodman, but he was away at the time (as established previously)
		Kuttner turns to document summarising Mulcaire payments – including the ‘Alexander’ cash payments from 09/11/05 to 14/02/06 and more to Aug
		The regular £500 payments were out of editorial budget at NOTW. The irregular payments post March 2006 were from News Desk.
		Kuttner says the different cost centres could be either assignment of Goodman, or Kuttner trying to balance different departmental budgets.
		Kuttner says he might have “challenged” some of these payments, but doesn’t recall any conversation about the Alexander payments.
		Justice Saunders asks about the document – an unsigned editorial file copy: Kuttner says two other copies normally.
		Memo from Goodman to Coulson 03/02/06 about ‘Matey’s weekly payment’ and a conversation with Kuttner. He does not recall this.
		23/02/06 Goodman emails Stokes on cashier’s rejection of signed contributors, and chasing up 2 ‘Alexander credits’
		Stokes replies she’s spoken with her boss Kuttner in 23/02/06 email and cancelling of Alexander. Goodman emails Kuttner about Alexander.
		Kuttner says “I do vaguely remember” this email exchange with Goodman about Alexander: “unceasing bombardment” by Goodman he says.
		“We seem to have a situation where most people conducted themselves…. it’s an attempt to get round things. Extremely irritated at the time
		“And extremely irritated about it now” says Kuttner over Goodman emails about paying Alexander – Mulcaire.
		“I made pretty clear, cash payments an extreme minority and properly justified, but the torrent goes on” says Kuttner of Goodman emails
	Kuttner’s work on Budget Setting
		Last subject on procedural issues: Caplan wants to look at Kuttner’s budget work.
		The first is the editor’s trip to “meet Mr Murdoch” in the US in May or June. If in London, Kuttner said he would attend annual budget set
		“My role was focused on size of the division of the editorial budget” says Kuttner of annual review of NOTW.
		On fixing editorial budget, Kuttner says if he was to attend meeting in London “with or without Mr Murdoch” he would create docs with editor
		Kuttner would help break down editorial budgets into various desks he says.
		Justice Saunders confirms with Kuttner he would do the same exercise even if he didn’t attend budget meetings in US with News Corp.
		Caplan goes to the 2002-03 budget for NOTW – total editorial budget of around £30,065,000
		Kuttner goes to another document that breaks down that £30m. News gets £4,730,000. “You don’t simply divide that sum by 52?” “Not at all”
		Kuttner explains that it’s on the variable costs, excluding fixed costs of salaries etc, you can divide by 52 to get weekly spending limits.
		Kuttner says he would be involved in calculating the pitched sum in advance, and then distributing budgets when finally agreed
		“In preparation for the new budget, there would be period of several months… where I’d create a menu….several versions” says Kuttner
		“I’m looking at potential savings & potential expenditure before there is any setting of the budget, although I may have guidelines” Kuttner
		15 minute break.
		Back after the break at the #hackingtrial : Stuart Kuttner continues with his evidence on NOTW budgets.
		The second part of the budget exercise means reviewing potential cuts. Kuttner’s counsel Caplan cites Kuttner’s 2005-6 budget notes.
		Kuttner says his meeting with Andy Coulson on budgets would last an hour, hour and half, with maybe the editorial accountant to help.
		Steve Mears or one of his successors at editorial accountancy would help with some of the ‘mechanics’ of NOTW budget.
		Mears was “not employed by the newspaper per se” says Kuttner, but -a Justice Saunders points out -NOTW’s holding company (NGN)
		Kuttner describes his “ad hoc list of costs. possible savings” as a “menu’ to “debate” with the editor.
		“Delete Ashely Cole” is a random item cited by Caplan. Kuttner explains this was probably £100k weekly column for the footballer
	Attempts to cut Nine Consultancy Budget
		“Special inquiries…. cut 50% of Nine Consultancy” appears on this 2005-06 budgets.
		Kuttner explains how ‘special inquiries’ means tracing, surveillance, CCJs, Companies House – “adjunct inquiries” to a journalist jon
		BREAKING: Kuttner says cutting 50 per cent of Mulcaire’s budget “probably originated in my mind: in 2005
		“I grew up in the reporting age when one made ones own inquiries” says Kuttner of ‘inquiry agent’ work.
		“We live in an age now where all this is done online by researchers” Kuttner says: “I thought there was money to be saved”
		09/03/05 two weeks later the budget notes have been redrafted: “That indicates I’d had another meeting with Andy Coulson” says Kuttner
		The suggestion to cut Nine Consultancy by 50% remains on this document of 08/03/05 – wider meeting the next day with Clive Milner & others
		Kuttner says the subject is “NOTW weekly editorial meeting’ but “I can’t tell you beyond that. I have no recollection”
		Nine Consultancy came under ‘Special Inquiries’ budget – a total of £325,000 for the “whole gamut of research, surveillance, investigations”
		“That seemed to me, from my past experience, as not a high figure” Kuttner says of £325k budget for Special Inquiries.
		Caplan points out that the Nine Consultancy cut has been deleted by 12/05/05 “I must have been persuaded not to make that cut” says Kuttner
		Kuttner cannot recall the circumstances in which Nine Consultancy’s annual spend was preserved from cuts in 2005
		Emails from September 05 to 06/01/06 email marked ‘Must Keep!!!!’ by Kuttner is just an aide memoire not to delete: aide memoire.
		The Kuttner aide memoire to Steve Mears covers Lord Stevens contract, NOTW Xmas party and retainer payments.
		In Jan 2006 Kuttner talks about a relatively inexpensive NOTW column for ‘Fish of the Week’ plus a £26k a year contact of Goodman’s
		“It’s a very general list” says Kuttner of this list to Mears which includes both Alexander payments and to Nine Consultancy (both Mulcaire)
		Proposal for 2006-07 budget savings includes “reduce 9 Consultancy” – another proposed cut.
		Kuttner cannot recall ‘specifically’ trying to cut 9 Consultancy again – but he “didn’t let go” in general.
		That was 03/03/06: on 08/03/06 is the second draft: 9 Consultancy is the third proposed cut. 10/03/06 3rd draft keeps proposed cut.
		Version 4 of Kuttner’s 2006-07 budget for NOTW (suggested MS date 11/03/06) the Nine Consultancy cut is still there.
		NOTW Editorial budget meeting on 15/03/06: Kuttner says “it’s possible” he took his drafts as a “prompt or aide memoire”
		Caplan says that “we do know from 1st July 2006 that the payments were not stopped” to Mulcaire’s Nine Consultancy. Kuttner doesn’t know why
		24/03/06 NOTW editor emails Mulcaire saying “contract will remain the same to 2007. Happy now grumpy?”
		Kuttner says “I don’t think I did” know about extension of Mulcaire’s contract despite his proposed cuts. Can remember no conversation.
	Editorial Budget
		Caplan asks about 3e03 and 3e01 cost centre codes – the first is news, the second editorial budget.
		Kuttner explains the editorial budget was originally for “senior people” and their company cars. He thought of allocating money to editorial
		Kuttner says the editorial budget was conceived to reflect editorial choices, generally speaking he had the authority to authorise.
		Kuttner recalls Goodman was assigned to 3e01 Editorial Budget: “He took the view he was separate to the news desk”
		“He wanted to report to people at a senior level and we indulged him” says Kuttner. The we? “The editor and myself” says Kuttner
		“If it gives you a sense of status and importance you can report to the editorial budget” says Kuttner. He breaks till tomorrow.
Mr Justice Saunders Reviews the Position of the Trial
	Clive Goodman expected to return in May
		Meanwhile Justice Saunders explains to the jury that they have “lost some time…. various reasons… discharge of one of your number”
		BREAKING: “Goodman will not be fit to resume his evidence until beginning of May, but we hope he will ready by then” says Justice Saunders
		Saunders also explains the jury may not retire to consider their verdicts till the end of May. We cannot tell how long you will be”
		“You must not be rushed to reach your verdict. This is an extremely important case but it’s an extremely expensive case” says Saunders
		Saunders says jury need to talk about “any contingency plans… we’ll play for alternative holidays… drop in the ocean compared to trial”
		“I hope that’s not too gloomy, at least you can think how long you need to reach your verdicts” Justice Saunders tell jury at #hackingtrial

Note: All the defendants deny all the charges. The trial continues.

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Peter Jukes on ABC Radio

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