Hacking Trial Live Tweets – 2 Apr

Wednesday 02 April 2014

Summary
The Defence of Mark Hanna Continues
Mark Hanna questioned about events of the day Rebekah Brooks arrested
Rebekah Brooks Arrested
Retrieval of Charlie Brooks bags from behind the bins
Police arrive at Jubilee Barn
The day after Rebekah Brooks arrest
Mark Hanna’s Arrest
Mark Hanna is Cross Examined by Counsel for Charlie Brooks
Neil Saunders QC questions Mark Hanna
Mark Hanna is Cross Examined by the Prosecution
Anthony Edis QC for the Crown questions Mark Hanna
Justice Saunders updates the Jury on absent Defendants
Hanna questioned on his Defence documents
Hanna cross-examined on events of 17 July 2011
Hanna questioned further on Police Interviews
The events of “Pizzagate”

The Defence of Mark Hanna Continues
Mark Hanna questioned about events of the day Rebekah Brooks arrested
Back with Mark Hanna, Head of Security for NI (now News UK) in the witness box, being questioned by his counsel, William Clegg QC
“We’d just gone to sleep on the 16th” Justice Saunders reminds us of the timeline. 16/07/11 On the 17th Hanna was on the phone by 5.16 am
Hanna went for an external patrol around Enstone Manor on 17/07/11 and then met ICP drivers who’d been requested to get provisions after 7am
ICP team delivered breakfast provisions for Hanna: he met Deborah Weir, Brooks’ mother preparing breakfast: he’d never met her before
Hanna helped “speed up the cooking process”: we heard previously from Deborah Weir he used a spatula on the bacon #shocking
Hanna learned that the Brooks were going back to London sometime around 7 am that morning.
All the security teams became aware of trip to London – a lot of packing to be done at Enstone Manor, says Hanna.
It wasn’t until they left the Manor House around 9 am that Hanna saw Mr and Mrs Brooks together: “It seemed rushed”
“Charlie stopped and turned and gave me the keys to the Range Rover” says Hanna: he doesn’t remember anything else being said
Hanna says Charlie didn’t mention anything about property or bags as he left for London and their solicitors Kingsley Napley
At that point, Hanna says, he knew nothing of appointment at police station on 17/07/07
Hanna was left with two vehicles and one driver; Sandell drove his Volvo, while he drove the Brooks’ Range Rover
An email from Jane Viner 10.40 on 17/07/11 shows car insurance for Hanna and Sandell and their temporary cover for different vehicles
The ICP lead and follow cars formed a convoy with the Brooks’ in a Black Audi as they travelled to solicitors in London
Deborah Weir was left at Enstone: she wanted to go to Jubilee Barn says Hanna – where there was a media presence.
Clegg reads out text about Jubilee Barn “lots of rats at bottom of road” about paparrazi and journalists around the Brooks’ country home
Hanna said it was “agreed” that he and Lee Sandell would escort Deborah Weir got back “safely” to Jubilee Barn.
Hanna says there’s “no truth” in prosecution allegations he went back to Jubilee Barn to “strip it of electronic devices”
Hanna examines the map of Oxfordshire, and confirms the highlighted route he took from Enstone to Jubilee Barn.
Clegg goes back to the evidence of Cutts, the forensic cell site expert who gave evidence a few months ago, showing Hanna’s phone movements
The cell site data shows Hanna regularly calling Lee Sandell that Sunday morning Rebekah Brooks was arrested.
“Not that I was going there to do that” says Hanna: but he wouldn’t have needed two vehicles to strip Jubilee Barn of electronic devices.
Hanna says he “may” have got out of his car at Jubilee Barn: but certainly did get out at junction on the drive to Brooks’ residence
Hanna explains topography of private drive to Jubilee Barn, which has a junction about mid way down. Easy to turn around.
Hanna denies entering Jubilee or Castle Barn that morning. Neither did Lee Sandell. Hanna denies taking away any electronic equipment.
After that Hanna headed to his home in Buckingham: Hanna spoke to Sandell to explain route through roundabouts in Chipping Norton
It’s a 45 minute diversion from Enstone to Buckingham explains Hanna. He wanted to drop off the Volvo: his wife’s Clio still at Wapping.
His wife and her father were at Buckingham: Hanna says he spent half an hour there for tea and chit-chat with Lee Sandell.
Hanna says he didn’t remove anything from his car – “anything collected from Jubilee Barn” asks Clegg. “No,” replies Hanna.
Hanna and Sandell then return together to London in Charlie Brooks‘ Range Rover.
Cell site data shows that Hanna was, by 12.20, in West London, exiting the M1.
Rebekah Brooks Arrested
A text from Blackhawk security team to Hanna and Geddes says Brooks has arrived at Lewisham Police Station.
Text from Blackhawk also says Charlie Brooks “assumed we knew” about trip to Lewisham Police station, adding: “what a twat”
Hanna says until that point – i.e. after her arrival at Lewisham police station – he had no idea of Brooks’ arrest
30 seconds after he was told Brooks was at a police station, Hanna called Charlie Brooks. “I was surprised at the text” says Hanna.
“It’s not very good when you’re providing security” says Hanna about not knowing in advance. But he didn’t convey his surprise to Charlie
“My recollect on this call Charlie mentioned the bags which were in the vehicle” says Hanna of midday calls on 17/07/11
Justice Saunders asks for more detail on this phone conversation about Charlie’s Bags. Hanna didn’t see them immediately. Clegg holds up bag
“It’s not dangerous” says Clegg of the Brown Bag in an evidence wrapper. “No chemicals… the bag is safe”
Hanna says he’s pretty sure that was the bag he saw three years ago. He says it was on back seat of the Range Rover.
Clegg removes the nylon computer bag for the jury: Hanna says he didn’t see that bag at all on 17/07/11: “It wasn’t in the Range Rover”
Clegg tries to reconstruct with Hanna “what was said by whom” in that phone conversation with Charlie about Rebekah Brooks‘ arrest.
“Charlie confirmed it was a pre-arranged appointment… he said there was a brown bag in the car. It was his personal bag” says Hanna
Hanna can’t recall anything else about this conversation with Charlie about his bags. “I probably said OK”
Hanna drove to Wapping first: “It seemed the perfect time to pick the Clio up” he says
Hanna didn’t drive to Thomas More Square, but old production site at Wapping. He was told there was a “media presence” at TMS
Hanna was driving Charlie Brooks‘ Range Rover, and thought arriving at TMS would attract media attention. So he went to Wapping Car Park
Hanna liaised with his deputy Glenn Jagger – who he met at Wapping Car Park. He brought refreshments.
Hanna says he saw no media out the old Wapping production plant. He discusses work with Jagger. Never goes to TMS. Sandell does
Sandell picked up the Clio. “I didn’t see him” take anything with him says Hanna.
Hanna then went back to Chelsea in Brooks’ Range Rover, with Sandell following in his wife’s Clio.
Hanna spoke to Sandell so that he would park the Clio outside the Wyndmondham Hotel while he drove into Thames Quay Car park.
Retrieval of Charlie Brooks bags from behind the bins
At 14.03 Hanna was calling Charlie Brooks to find fob for car park entrance. 14.05 he manages to speak to Charlie: fob in car pockets
Justice Saunders explains how the CCTV timestamps aren’t perfectly synchronised – but they show Hanna leaving Chelsea Harbour at 14.12
“It was on the same day anyway” jokes Justice Saunders about the slight discrepancy of timings about Hanna’s Chelsea Harbour visit
Hanna says he parked the Range Rover having seen Charlie Brooks. He took out the brown bag from the vehicle. Handed Charlie car keys
Hanna says Charlie mentioned the Brown Bag again and “keeping hold of it for me”. Hanna said nothing. Charlie said it was personal property
“The conversation was…. a split conversation. He indicated over to where the bins were” says Hanna.
Hanna says he was told by Charlie “explicit pornography” was in the Jiffy bag and computer behind the bins in the car park.
“He asked me to look after it” says Hanna of additional computer and Jiffy bag. He can’t remember anything else being said.
Of the various items he wanted him to take, Hanna says Charlie “didn’t want it to get in the hands of the police or Rebekah”
Hanna says he had no idea why Charlie wanted him to look after his bags until that meeting in the underground car park at Thames Quay
Hanna says he went to get the additional Charlie Brooks property from behind the bins.
William Clegg QC shows a CCTV still from the underground car park with Hanna retrieving the Jiffy Bag, black nylon bag and laptop.
Hanna says Jiffy Bag and laptop were behind the bins. He tells Justice Saunders Charlie mentioned it was pornography – then he saw it was.
Hanna says he was asked to look after these items and “nothing else”: jury shown Chapter 7 of CCTV footage from Thames Quay car park.
Hanna says he decided to take Charlie Brooks‘ bags to “Thomas More Security Team”
Hanna says he “believed that property was Charlie’s property”: he selected TMS “didn’t want to take home… it was localised area”
Hanna took Charlie’s Bags and porno to TMS because it was “somewhere where I thought it would be safe: slightly embarrassing to take home”
Hanna called a member of the concierge security team at TMS as he travelled there from Chelsea because he was “dropping stuff off”
“Because of the content, it was easier to bag it up in lost and found property” says Hanna of Charlie’s Bag.
Hanna says he asked Barbara Ingham to bring down bin liners and cellotape to bag up Charlie’s Bags.
Hanna parked his wife’s Clio on Thomas More street: Ingham arrived at the Clio with bin liners. He double bagged Charlie’s stuff.
Jury are shown pictures of three bin bags recovered from Chelsea Harbour compactor the next day. Hanna says he only used two.
Hanna’s prints are on 2 recovered bin bags. The double sealed bin bags were then placed in a third bag says Clegg. Hanna not involved
Female DNA was found on one of the bin bags with Hanna’s prints: he suggests this Ingham, another member of NI security staff
14.47 Hanna and Charlie talked on the phone: “It was a strange call… Charlie was asking where the fob was for the car” says Hanna
Having bagged up Charlie’s bags, Hanna drove home: “It had been a long few weeks,” he says. He knew nothing about any other property
Barbara Ingram (not Ingham) called Hanna around 19.00 hrs as she changed shift. He told of Charlie’s bags: “Put stuff in found property”
Another mobile phone conversation cited from call data at the #hackingtrial. It’s now 20.38 – Chris Palmer calls Hanna after a text message
The phone schedule shows another security operative, Jorsling, in conversation with Charlie Brooks. Hanna says he spoke to Charlie at 17.30
Police arrive at Jubilee Barn
“What sparked off this part of the communication… Blackhawk 2 explaining police had arrived at Jubilee Barn. I texted Charlie to explain”
Charlie called Hanna at 17.30 for about 15 seconds: “Do you still have the stuff” he said. “Can I have it back?”
Hanna texted Ingram to tell her someone from ICP would be coming along to pick up Charlie’s Bag. He called Blackhawk 1 at Lewisham
We got back to 19.00 text between Ingram and Hanna: “she said no one had arrived yet” and passed on instructions to next shift.
Hanna speaks to security operative Jorsling at 20.35 and then he texts Charlie Brooks. First contact between him and Jorsling that PM
“I had no idea where he was coming from” says Hanna of Jorsling’s movements as he returned Charlie’s Bags the evening of 17/07/11
“It was that sort of ownership thing, I thought it was only right he should know his property was coming after all this time” says Hannna
Hanna spoke to Charlie Brooks on Palmer’s phone about arrival: “he made some indication of no food… a pizza was agreed to be collected”
Hanna spoke to Jorsling of the “need to collect a Pizza”: “it sounds very petty…. I made sure he money to pay for it and could claim back”
15 minute break
Back with Mark Hanna after the morning break at the #hackingtrial where we’ve covered in detail events of 17/07/11: day of Brooks’ arrest
21.09 on the Call Schedule after ordering of Pizza: Hanna texts Jorsling “Have a plan. Can you call please. Mark”
Hanna says this “plan” with Jorsling was about about getting him into the car park. Justice Saunders goes through the conversations
Hanna says he’d spoken to Charlie Brooks on his friend Palmer’s phone about how to get Jorsling into the car park.
Charlie had to call site security so that Jorsling could be let in with the pizza delivery.
Daryl Jorsling called Hanna again “I explained to him the agreed access to the car park… during the call he told me don’t worry I have fob
It now transcribes Jorsling had a fob given to him by R Brooks’ driver who was still waiting outside Lewisham police station
Blackhawk 1 texted Hanna from police: “I did explain to them Jorsling had picked a pizza up” says Hanna, and they could claim expenses
21.34 Jorsling called Hanna to explain he’d “delivered the items” to Charlie’s friend in the underground car park.
Hanna says of Charlie’s bags and his friend Palmer: “my understanding was that he handed it to his friend” Assumed bags in the flat now
“No, certainly not” says Hanna to any suggestion he knew Charlie’s bags had been left by bins. “Don’t think…. a good idea”
Hanna says he had no idea a third bin liner and a black nylon bag had been added to the property since he left it as TMS
A reference to Ashley Cole and a “pizza flying over my head” explains the term ‘Pizzagate’ used by security operatives says William Clegg QC
Hanna is back home at last in 17/07/11: “tired… wanted to relax at this point” he says.
Texts to about 12.40 the night of 17th/18th July show Hanna being informed of Brooks’ release from Lewisham police station.
The day after Rebekah Brooks arrest
“Lots of thoughts going through my mind” says Hanna with DCMS committee looming. Next morning 18/07/11 he wakes up very early
Hanna says he probably got in 6 a.m. 18/07/11: His “primary concern was the select committee Rebekah was going to attend”
18/07/11 Hanna attended handover at 7 am. Management meeting at 9 am. At 11.01 am he’s called by Charlie Brooks over where bags were
Hanna says he explained to Charlie Brooks that security operative Jorsling had handed his bags over to his friend Chris Palmer
11.02 Charlie Brooks texts Chris Palmer according to Clegg.
At this stage there was no appearance of alarm or concern in Charlie, says Hanna. “I thought he had the items already”
Hanna met Will Geddes from ICP for lunch on the 18/07/11 to talk about select committee
Hanna with in the canteen with Glenn Jagger for this meeting with William Geddes. They had a “considerable amount” of work.
12.46 Hanna went to Pret-A-Manger to meet head of ICP, William Geddes.
Geddes contacts Johnson within a minute of texting Hanna. Then long calls to Blackhawk1,driver Edwards, Jorsling and others in next 30 mins
Paul Edward calls Hanna from the underground car park at Chelsea Harbour asking where the bags were: Hanna says given to Palmer
This is the first time he heard the bags were missing, says Hanna. In middle of his call to driver Edwards, Blackhawk 1 called Geddes
12.48 Both Geddes and Hanna were together at Pret-a-Manger as they are both making calls about Charlie’s missing bags.
13.02 Geddes was quizzing Jorsling about the delivery of bags the night before. Geddes then explained to Hanna.
Hanna then calls Paul Edwards the driver about the location of Charlie’s Bags. No longer behind bins.
Hanna says he and Geddes didn’t get any lunch at Pret-a-Manger because of the calls about Charlie’s missing bags.
Clegg asks “how important was it in your professional life that these bags went missing?” Hanna: “I took it upon myself to….resolve issue”
Hanna says he was contacted later that day and told: “the property is in the hands of the police…. Charlie wasn’t best pleased”
Hanna says the rest of the week “was dominated by events in Westminster”
Hanna denies he ever destroyed any property belonging to News International that weekend Brooks was arrested.
Hanna says that if he had destroyed property during most that Sunday: “Lee Sandell would have been a witness”
“Everything you were asked to look after by Charlie Brooks were put into that black bin liner?” asks Clegg. “Yes it was” says Hanna.
Mark Hanna’s Arrest
Hanna remained Head of Security at News International through to March 2012 “working long hard hours… as best you could?” “Yes”
13/03/12 Hanna was arrested at the main reception of Thomas More Square. Suspended from work. “I’ve not worked since,” he says.
Hanna was taken to a police station – he had an access to a lawyer organised and paid for by News International.
Hanna’s solicitor told him not to answer any questions of the police: a ‘no comment’ interview on 13/07/11 – he wasn’t charged.
15/05/12 Hanna was charged: “I am totally innocent of the charge” he said then. “I cannot believe I’m in in this situation”
Mark Hanna is Cross Examined by Counsel for Charlie Brooks
Neil Saunders QC questions Mark Hanna
Mark Hanna has finished his evidence in chief. Neil Saunders for Charlie Brooks has some questions in cross examination
Chris Palmer is cited on an email – a “totally different person” working for Advance Security.
Saunders goes back to the difference between Charlie Brooks recollection and Hanna’s about conversation at Enstone morning of Sunday 17th.
Hanna cannot recollect Charlie telling him to look after the stuff at Enstone, but says it could have happened.
Hanna had said he was told en route about looking after Charlie’s bags an hour or so later than Charlie said.
Hanna says he did not know there was mail in Charlie’s bags.
Hanna says he didn’t know at the time subsequent evidence that points to Lee Sandell being involved with Charlie’s mail
Neil Saunders goes to the scene in the car park when Hanna returned to Chelsea Quay Car Park and Charlie mentions “porn”
Neil Saunders says that Charlie’s recollection is that Hanna didn’t know it was porn until Hanna saw it: “You do look inside Jiffy Bag?” Yes
Hanna doesn’t recall putting Jiffy Bag and Vaio into brown briefcase: but does put into two dustbin liners “all three separate” he says.
Neil Saunders for Charlie then goes back to Hanna’s conversation with Blackhawk about returning bags: should have been Cox not Jorsling
Hanna goes through again the moves from Lewisham to Wapping and then Wapping to Chelsea. He was wholly unaware of second bag an extra liner
Neil Saunders has finished his cross examination. Now Andrew Edis for the crown cross examines Mark Hanna
Mark Hanna is Cross Examined by the Prosecution
Anthony Edis QC for the Crown questions Mark Hanna
“You told the jury today you agreed to hide items of Mr Brooks from the police” says Edis. “That would be wrong” says Hanna.
“I’ll go with your interpretation if you want” says Hanna. “I took items….” “So the police would not get them” adds Edis.
Edis points out Hanna’s reaction when charged “I was totally innocent”. “I didn’t believe I’d done anything illegal at the time” says Hanna
Hanna can’t remember when he first told the police he’d taken Charlie’s bags and hidden stuff from them. Edis turns to his defence statement
“This is drafted by the lawyer rather than the defendant” says Clegg of Hanna’s defence statement : “and they have made a couple of errors”
Edis wants to jury to see a document. Clegg for Hanna has no objection but a couple of corrections.
Justice Saunders explains to jury that these documents are read through and signed by defendant, though prepared by lawyers
“You will have read it and signed it” says Edis: “And the contents met with your approval”
“So many documents thrown in front of you at the time” says Hanna. Edis “It is a very important doc. Can be used against you at a trial”
Hanna can’t remember if he realised then “this could come back to haunt you”. “I won’t dispute that,” says Hanna.
“It’s quite a short document… is there anything in it about Pizzas?” asks Edis. Hanna says he will read it over lunchtime. Back 2pm
Justice Saunders updates the Jury on absent Defendants
Big thanks to @ThreeUK who’ve sent an engineer down to the Old Bailey to help out reception during #hackingtrial
Justice Saunders tells #hackingtrial jury on return from lunch that tomorrow and Friday could be short days – still waiting on Goodman
“To complicate matters Mr Kuttner has not been well” explains Justice Saunders of changed “batting order” of defence
Hanna questioned on his Defence documents
Edis asks Hanna about his defence documents: the one reference to Pizzas on 17/07/11
Hanna’s defence statement just mentions “property unspecified” Hanna doesn’t know why it only said that and no mention of black bag
Hanna repeats the defence document was “drafted by my legal team” and has errors. He cites how his employment dates are out by 16 days
“These are minor errors of detail” says Edis: “But the fact you had nothing to do with black bag might be more important”
Defence Statement dated January 2013: Hanna says he only learned about black bag in the middle of 2013
Hanna admits his defence statement has not detail of any of the property he took.
Edis reads part of statement by Hanna that he only “began’ to have responsibility for Brooks in July 11 – but previous evidence shows April 2011
Hanna agrees he knew “various people” might be arrested, after the event in April. He can’t remember who told him of threat to Brooks.
Hanna says it would not have been in his ‘remit’ to negotiate arrests with police.
During first interview Hanna was asked about the ‘black bag’ with Apple laptop. Hanna says he can’t remember though not disputing.
“You and your lawyers knew perfectly well there was a black bag” when Hanna prepared his defence statement, says Edis.
“No hidden reason why not” Hanna says omission of black bag from his defence statement.
“Sometimes you’re psychologically down in a ditch” says Hanna. Edis: “You’re well placed to deal with these things”
Hanna says being arrested in public worst thing that’s ever happened to him. But he accepts he’s had lots of dealing with police, supportive
“All the legal side of what police do” says Hanna of his contact with police: “Not the illegal side”
“You had a perfectly detailed and legal reason to give,” says Edis: “Why did you not talk to police”
“One benefit of taking their advice, you could develop your story when your saw the evidence” says Edis of Hanna following lawyer’s advice
Hanna explains how being arrested is a “horrendous time…. it’s very process driven. Best placed person to give you advice is the lawyer”
“I think the interview process was very fair” says Hanna. He agrees they gave him any opportunity to tell them what he liked.
“They were treating you like any other suspect” says Edis. “Yes I realise that now” says Hanna. “You must have realised it then” says Edis.
Hanna confirms he was told 13/07/11 about Enstone Manor mock select committee.
Hanna cross-examined on events of 17 July 2011
Edis goes to the Sunday 17/07/11 where Hanna claims he thought the Brooks’ were going to the lawyers to prepare for select committee
Hanna accepts he knew there was a police investigation was going on – but he didn’t know Brooks had been an editor of NOTW.
“All these abusive messages… about Milly Dowler…. that’s why people were so cross at her” says Edis.
Hanna accepts the publicity said there was phone hacking at NOTW under the editorship of Brooks.
Hanna says he was “unaware of anything beyond the fact Rebekah had resigned”. Edis says “she resigned because of phone hacking”
Hanna says he knows that now. Edis says “everyone in the country knew” about the Milly Dowler hacking allegations in July 2011
Hanna says he did not know of police concern until after this weekend at Enstone.
Hanna says he didn’t know Brooks had been arrested until after he left the garage, but he knew she was at police station.
Edis says “you knew what happened when people were arrested… you had to secure their desks. Their homes were searched” in July 2011
Hanna says this is the first time he’s heard Brooks was arrested in front of driver Paul Edwards: he can’t remember where he was when heard
Edis points out that Hanna was in contact with people outside Lewisham: “Did they not tell you?” “They may have done” says Hanna
“This is a big day…. the arrest of your ultimate boss. This was memorable day” says Edis. “Certainly is memorable now” says Hanna
Edis cites Blackhawk 1 texting Hanna and Geddes at 12.20. Hanna then rings Charlie Brooks who was with MacBride his solicitor.
“People sometimes get things wrong in messages” says Hanna of his call to Charlie. “Surely he told she had been arrested” said Edis. “No”
12.25 another call to Hanna telling him Brooks had gone in the police station. “You’re in overall charge of this,” says Edis. Hanna agrees
“Did you watch Sky News… or listen to any other news” asks Edis. Hanna says “it may sound silly…. we were the news”
Hanna says that as soon as he heard about Brooks’ arrest he didn’t think about Charlie’s bags. But he told Jane Viner about Charlie’s bags
“It must have occurred you, you had hidden material… which might have been searched by police” says Edis. “Not really” says Hanna.
Hanna says Charlie’s Bags didn’t occupy a lot of his time, only insofar as he had to divert to Thomas More Square.
Hanna confirms to Justice Saunders that he moved Charlie’s bags to make sure they weren’t found out during police search.
“I made a decision what I was removing from Chelsea Harbour was legal” says Hanna. He confirms he didn’t looking inside computer.
Justice Saunders asks Hanna how he formed the view the contents “were legal” Hanna says Jiffy Bag porn seemed ‘legal’
“The fact he wanted to hide it from the police would have given you a bit of a warning” asks Edis. “I took his word” says Hanna
“I made the assumption what I was doing was not illegal” says Hanna. “It was my consideration at the time”
Edis takes the jury and Mark Hanna to a schedule of his movements that day. He wants “his state of knowledge and belief”
By that time, Hanna knew about the brown briefcase from a call from Charlie Brooks at 12.22: he doesn’t believe he said where bag was.
“Lee reached over from passenger seat to back seat” says Hanna of the brown bag. “I was asked to look after it”
Hanna says at this point he thought he was returning briefcase to Charlie Brooks – he hadn’t said he wanted him to keep for the day.
Hanna agrees his evidence this morning – about looking after for the day then – was wrong.
“After Lee found it on the back seat, it was my understanding (Charlie) didn’t want it left in the car unattended” says Hanna of briefcase
14.06 CCTV shown with Charlie giving Hanna directions to park while texting
Edis asks what Charlie said to Hanna about the brown bag: “I assumed he wanted me to look after it for a period of time”
Hanna says Charlie didn’t say why, or how long, he wanted him to look after the bag. He took the other items from behind the bin.
Court shown the video of Hanna exiting the Range Rover, heading to bins a couple of times.
“I must have had possession of the bag” Hanna concedes “because Charlie had the keys to the car”
Hanna says it’s “so hard to remember three years ago” what Charlie said to him. He “may have” mentioned pornography.
“Was the word pornography mentioned by Mr Brooks” asks Edis. “I think I’ve already said it ‘may’ have been mentioned” says Hanna
CCTV plays on. Charlie leaves. Sandell is seen waiting outside with Clio. It’s raining. People pass by. Hanna leaves bin area with Jiffy bag
“Was it hidden” asks Edis of Jiffy Bag. “No it could be seen” says Hanna. “It’s been there for 2 hours…. are you saying in plain sight?”
“They’re propped up agains the wall” explains Hanna. Can’t get out through main door – normally wedged open – and 14.12 leaves in full view
“Presumably you got out of the car and said “Here’s your bag, Charlie” asks Edis. Hanna agrees, but Charlie wanted him to look after bags
“I was taking items I believed were legal and looking after them for Charlie Brooks…. my remit was look after family aswell” says Hanna
Hanna says she wouldn’t look after Rebekah’s stuff because she was at police station “different ball game entirely”
“Rebekah was the primary concern, so I would not have hidden anything from the police for her” says Hanna.
Hanna says he had a conversation with Sandell: Edis: “Didn’t he say – hang on what are you doing… should we be doing this? Hanna: “No”
Hanna says Charlie’s bag were going to stay in security control – he had no idea how long for. “I thought it was going to be a few days”
“Security and pornography don’t go well together. The last thing you want security to see… so we bag it up” says Hanna
Hanna agrees he starts an exchange with Charlie later when Blackhawk team says there were police at the Barn. Searches underway.
17.05 Police leave Jubilee Barn 17.25 Hanna sends text message – he says he didn’t know searches were finished, or solicitors at both houses
“Getting the bag back to him, stepping away” says Hanna of returning bags. “Stepping away quite a revealing expression” says Edis.
“I did my best” says Hanna. “But you knew it was wrong” says Edis. “Not at the time,” replies Hanna
17.30 Hanna called by Charlie – immediately he calls Blackhawk 1 for 2mins 20 sec in Lewisham: the mobile team on Brooks.
Jorsling is in SE13 with Johnson and Edwards at this point. Lots of three way calls. Hanna says “I never chose Mr Jorsling to do it”
The text says stuff should be “handed” to Charlie. Hanna says “this is not in my text so I can’t comment on that”
10 minute break
Hanna questioned further on Police Interviews
Back after the break with the cross examination of Mark Hanna by Andrew Edis QC.
Edis wants to return to police interview and Hanna’s case about the black bag – police disclosure took place before interview
On tape, the police read out what they’re disclosing – a break as Hanna is allowed to discuss with solictor.
Edis says the existence of the black bag was disclosed to Hanna – and the police went through the contents item by item.
“I remember very little about the interview” says Hanna. December 2012 there was a pre-trial hearing says Edis: “there were quite a few”
Hanna remembers hearings before different judge “but they all blurred into one”. But this hearing involved a detailed discussion of evidence
A brief break so Hanna’s counsel can have a look at something Edis has “just found”.
Jury back in after a bit of legal discussion between Andrew Edis QC for the crown and William Clegg QC for Mark Hanna
Jury shown prosecution document used in pretrial hearings circa 26/11/12 which shows the items recovered from black bag: iPad, Macbook etc.
“What it’s telling you that it’s an important part of the prosecution case that you had black bags” says Edis. “Possibly” says Hanna
Edis says Hanna’s part of the case is not that complicated. Hanna says from a “layman’s point of view” it is.
The events of “Pizzagate”
Hanna explains calls from Jorsling who has gone to TMS from Lewisham about picking up Charlie’s Bags.
Edis asks about the text sent from Jorsling: he said he’d picked up stuff 20.35. Hanna speaks to Charlie through Palmer’s phone. 20.38
Edis asks Hanna to go through that call with Charlie: “he was questioning why it took so long… he had friend around… no food in flat”
Hanna says this was three hours after Charlie initially asked for the bags. He also asked for Pizza.
“Did he tell you he wasn’t going to pay for the pizza” asks Edis. “There was no mention of money… didn’t happen in the morning. breakfast”
Hanna says there was no cook at Enstone on the Sunday morning, hence security buying breakfast. Estate manager’s wife told Hanna arrangement
Hanna says he didn’t know who the cook was. He didn’t vet the staff beyond the gate. “Not the guests, but the staff” says Edis.
Hanna says it wasn’t his job to vet the staff at the weekend at Enstone “no sensitive meetings… people Mr and Mrs Brooks new already”
“You wouldn’t want someone who sold information” to the paparazzi says Edis. Hanna was under legal obligation to supply security for Brooks
“I went to a chip shop in Chipping Norton and bought chips for the security team” says Hanna: “I wouldn’t ask money back for that”
Edis asks if all the texts going backward and forward between Hanna and Jorsling at his point are just about paying for pizza? Hanna: “yes”
Edis asks about Hanna’s text to Jorsling “Have a plan” text. Hanna reiterates this was about access to building, discussed earlier.
Hanna had said he’d forgotten earlier about discussion about getting into car park. Edis says he’s forgotten again.
Edis says that Jorsling had a fob – and that was the plan all along. “No, it wasn’t” says Hanna.
“It’s been a long day, so apologies for getting things wrong” says Hanna. “You didn’t apologise about this earlier” says Edis.
Justice Saunders points out that ‘have a plan’ suggests there is a problem that he and Jorsling already know about it.
“In fact access to underground car park wasn’t a problem… it would be known to Jorsling, and to Johnson” says Edis.
“I never spoke to Mr Johnson about the problem” says Hanna. Edis points out they had a longish conversation at that point that evening.
Edis shows the level of calls: “the problem you had at 9.10 was to give Mr Jorsling some cover if anyone saw him” Hanna: “No it wasn’t”
“You have accepted you were involved in an arrangement to hide stuff from police, it’s pretty embarrassing if they discovered what happened”
“The deliveryman needed a good excuse for being there” says Edis. “The pizza wasn’t a good cover story” says Hanna.
“This is the plan that everyone called Pizzagate” says Edis. “I didn’t know of the term ‘Pizzagate'” says Hanna.
Edis says all these people were working for Hanna. “They use various forms of terminology” says Hanna.
“A gang isn’t a bad term for a group of people hiding stuff from police” says Edis. Hanna denies they were working that way.
Edis says return of the bags would have been an “obvious problem”. Hanna says it didn’t occur to him.
Edis says the risk not only came from police but paparazzi. Hanna says there was nobody in attendance at Thames Quay at the time.
“It would have been totally down to Charlie where the bags were delivered” says Hanna. It was his decision.
“Charlie was fully concerned of the risks of the media around Chelsea Harbour” says Hanna.
“The pizza was ordered way before the “I’ve got a plan” text” says Hanna.
Edis asks who told Jorsling to hide stuff behind the bins. Hanna denies it was him or Johnson, or to be done “covertly or secretly”
“As far as you’re concerned this is a perfectly lawful, overt operation… no more unlawful than delivering flowers” says Edis.
Hanna says he did not instruct anyone about dropping off the bag.
“One last little thing while we’re on this subject… an open delivery with nothing secret about it all” says Edis.
“No one thought we were doing anything illicit or illegal” says Hanna. Edis cites the Broadsword to Danny Boy email from Johnson to Jorsling
In that text Johnson and Jorsling talk about a “dead letter drop” and “logging in hours as Pizza delivery”
“That’s you” says Edis of who would ultimately be billed for Pizza delivery. “That would hide real purpose of the journey”
Hanna says he didn’t see ICP bills – they went straight to Peterborough
Court won’t be sitting till 10.30 am tomorrow, as jury has previously been told

Note: All the defendants deny all the charges. The trial continues.

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Peter Jukes on ABC Radio

Previous Posts
Hacking Trial Live Tweets – 28 Mar
Hacking Trial Live Tweets – 31 Mar
Hacking Trial Live Tweets – 1 Apr

Links: The Trial So Far | Full Trial Summary | Indexed Evidence | Breaking News

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3 thoughts on “Hacking Trial Live Tweets – 2 Apr

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