Hacking Trial Live Tweets – 7 Jan

Tuesday 7 January 2014

Summary
	The Prosecution Case Continues
		Counsel for Cheryl Carter continues cross examination of Nick Mays
		Counsel for Rebekah Brooks cross examines Nick Mays
		Further Prosecution questions to Nick Mays
		The Judge, Mr Justice Saunders questions Nick Mays
		Counsel for Cheryl Carter re-examines Nick Mays
		Further Prosecution questions to Nick Mays
	Witness – Eamon Dyas (Archivist at New International)
		Prosecution Counsel questions Eamon Dyas
		Counsel for Cheryl Carter cross examines Eamon Dyas
		Further Prosecution questions to Eamon Dyas
	Witness – Nick Carter (Son of Cheryl Carter)
		Prosecution Counsel questions Nick Carter
		Counsel for Cheryl Carter cross examines Nick Carter
	Prosecution Evidence on Cheryl Carter
		Giving Evidence – Operation Sasha Detective DS John Massey
		Cheryl Carter Statement to Police
		Cheryl Carter Police Interview under caution
		Second Cheryl Carter Police Interview under caution
		Third Cheryl Carter Police Interview under caution

The Prosecution Case Continues
	Counsel for Cheryl Carter continues cross examination of Nick Mays
		Back at the #hackingtrial with continued cross examination of Nick Mays, an archivist at News UK, by Trevor Burke, counsel for Cheryl Carter
		Burke asks Mays if Carter collected anything other than the 7 boxes on the 8th of July 2011: Mays “She did not.”
		Brooks resigned on the 15th July – a week after the 7 boxes filed under her name were collected by Cheryl Carter.
		Burke cites the email from 15th July 11 in which she resigned as CEO
		Brooks’ email speaks of ‘press freedom’ and her ‘sense of personal responsibility’: “I have given James Murdoch my letter of resignation”
		“James Murdoch is an inspirational leader… I have worked here for 22 year… I will always be eternally grateful….” Brooks on 15/07/11
		James Murdoch wrote 10 mins later to NI staff about “solving the problems at NI in relation to NOTW” and Brooks’ resignation
		James thanks Brooks:”she’s been one of the outstanding editors of her generation”. He talks of formation of MSC and closure of NOTW
		James’ email from 15/07/11 then announces Brooks’ replacement as CEO – Tom Mockeridge
		Mays writes that day to Cheryl Carter about ‘framed items’ stored in Wapping.
		Mays says he could not arrange with Carter the transfer of Brooks’ personal items that day
		Burke suggests he can correct Mays’ memory: but Mays cannot recollect anything being returned after police search of Brooks’ office
	Counsel for Rebekah Brooks cross examines Nick Mays
		Laidlaw for Brooks cross examines Mays: “I want to focus on the archives at Enfield…. and not the storage facility in Wapping”
		Laidlaw draws out the distinction between ‘storage’ and ‘archives’: the last often “documentation to comply with legal and accounting rules”
		The other role of the archives is to preserve the ‘corporate identity’ of historic papers – like The Times and News of the World
		Archives could include artefacts, important internal memoranda, letters from the public etc. for historic purposes
		Mays explains they had an office at Enfield, even though he was based in Wapping.
		“For records management, we will store non historical material for legal or financial reasons,” says NI archivist Mays
		“Any material related to the workings and operations of the company and its staff” is Mays’ description of proper archiving
		“The archive is not there to store personal effects?” asks Laidlaw. “Formally, no” says Mays. During NI ‘decamp’ they made exceptions
		The archive at Enfield was “not intended for that use” says Mays of personal effects storage for News International
		Mays explains that Enfield archive was for the whole of News International, not just News of the World. (Times, Sunday Times, the Sun, TLS)
		It’s not just the editorial department that uses the archives – “any member of staff can use it to store their records”: HR, Legal etc.
		“I don’t vet the material on general quality grounds,” says Mays. “Files, notebook, company generated documentation…. that’s acceptable.”
		They avoid storage of things like Jane’s military text books and other supporting documentation at NI archives at Enfield.
		“Let me just set the scene,” says Laidlaw; Brooks joined NI in 1989 – Mays in 1994. “She had never personally put anything into archive.”
		“I couldn’t vouch 100 percent the boxes weren’t filled by her,” says Mays of Brooks archiving.
		Whether Brooks personally put anything in archives Mays says: “I do not believe so.”
		Laidlaw sketches Brooks career – researcher, feature writer, editor of features desk: “she spends five years a journalist before any exec”
		More on Brooks career at NOTW. She joins Sun as deputy editor in 97. Returns as NOTW editor in 00. Sun editor 03-09. Then CEO NI for 2 yrs
		“On none of the occasions where there is a change of job does she appear at NI archive…” asks Laidlaw. “Not personally,” says Mays
		Laidlaw then moves on to “use of the archive by members of her (Brooks’) staff”: Mays has made five witness statements to police
		Laidlaw cites Deborah Keegan – Brooks PA – who archived material between 2007 and 2009. That material is still there
		Mays says of Keegan’s archiving “they all seem to be admin records from that office” – i.e. Brooks editorship of the Sun
		Laidlaw then moves to Cheryl Carter’s use of archives. Mays says that she didn’t use it, except for the 7 boxes, from 2007 and 2009
		On his third witness statement covering the Carter use of archive up to 2012: “the seven boxes were the only time she did…”
		Mays says a temporary member of staff archived some of Brooks’ stuff in that 5 year period.
		Laidlaw, counsel for Brooks, explores why in September 09, on her promotion to CEO, she needed to archive these seven boxes in question
		“This isn’t entirely straightforward,” explains Laidlaw. Brooks moved from one office (Sun) in Wapping to the CEO’s office
		Laidlaw asks whether May knew if Brooks’ CEO office was smaller than Sun. No, but he was aware it was Murdoch’s office now divided in two
		Mays says he never saw the divided CEO office himself.
		Laidlaw says Brooks case is “she had nothing to do with the sending of the seven boxes to the archives in Wapping”
		Brooks case is she had nothing to do with decision to archive the 7 boxes, the labelling or withdrawal.
		Saunders intervenes: “This is just comment.” Mays confirms he has no knowledge of this at all.
		Mays says he has “no recollection of the actual process” of originally archiving the boxes. “It’s possible” he inspected to verify contents
		Mays says he has “no direct recollection” of inspecting the 7 boxes attributed to Brooks
		Mays confirms there was no ‘formal record’ to remove or access the 7 boxes early than the date in July 2011
		Laidlaw then moves from the archives to temporary storage spaces for staff at News International.
		In October 2010 the senior management at NI moved to TMS (Thomas More Square) and were asked to reduced amount of property they transferrred
		Mays remembers “A Help for Heroes” framed medal. Some cartoons, posters, luncheon lists, large board with Sun logo with farewell messages
		These personal effects remained in Wapping at a temporary storage facility in which Brooks’ staff were allowed to store material in Oct 10
		The Wapping storage was about to be closed down on the move to TMS. Laidlaw for Brooks finishes his cross examination of Mays.
	Further Prosecution questions to Nick Mays
		Bryant Heron for the Crown has a few follow up questions for the NI archivist.
		Mays is questioned about archiving form that Carter corrected (to say it was her material not Brooks): “It was not out – she didn’t see it”
		Bryant Heron goes back to the email contact between Mays and Carter: “I never spent any social time with her at all,” he says
		“Apart from these three issues…. I had little contact with Mrs Carter,” says Mays
	The Judge, Mr Justice Saunders questions Nick Mays
		Justice Saunders has a few more questions about email to Carter: Mays had some material from 2003.
		Saunders asks about portrait of JRM moved in May 2011
		“I will find a space for everything” about personal effects. But Mays says of combining it with archive material: “Certainly, not”
		Mays said he had no reply about Brooks’ personal effects, and brought it up again on the day of her resignation on 15th July 2011
		Saunders asks about the purchase of the Times silver in May 2011: Charlie Brooks had chosen some from a catalogue
		The evidence shows Mays chasing up Carter on Charlie Brooks‘ cheque for the silver: goes wrong because of wrong emails
		Trevor Burke, counsel for Carter, intervenes about the timing of the email timings (Carter’s Blackberry was one hour behind)
		Saunders ask about Mays note of Carter phone call asking for Brooks boxes: “my recollection is that I would have made it during the call”
		Mays then explains to Saunders about Paul Nicholas’ simultaneous request for archive material for last edition of NOTW
		Saunders asks Mays about first archive request for 7 boxes and something else for member of legal department, Avril Russell
		Mays says that Crown archiving facility preferred a ‘standard delivery’ to be booked, which would then be accelerated by a call or email
		“It moved to some kind of faster delivery and we would try to work it out,” says Mays of archived boxes. Discussion of another courier
		Mays explains how a separate moving company (Premiere) was mooted for delivery of the seven archived boxes “from Crown”
		May says he would not have thought of employing anyone else to make that move. The idea of separate moving company not initiated by him
		Mays says that he recollection of first discussion at 10 am: “next working day was satisfactory”.
		For contractual reasons, Crown had to move ‘historical material’ (for NOTW last edition) – they had to deliver in four hours.
		The eight boxes were added to the Crown two hour delivery of historic NOTW material says Mays, NI archivist, to Justice Saunders
		Three orders were therefore combined in one delivery through Crown, rather than using a separate courier company.
		Mays says he would have only have used the Crown Service for standard delivery
	Counsel for Cheryl Carter re-examines Nick Mays
		Burke counsel for Carter, re-examines Mays about the reasons for expediting the delivery of the seven boxes.
		Burke suggests that the only reason the 7 boxes expedited was because there was room in the Crown van
	Further Prosecution questions to Nick Mays
		Bryant Heron for the Crown goes back to Mays statement about “I must have talked to Cheryl about same day delivery”
		“Cheryl gave no reason why she wanted them quickly,” says Mays written statement about delivery of 7 boxes
		“Ten minute break while we find the next witness,”” says Saunders to Jury at Court 12
Witness – Eamon Dyas (Archivist at New International)
	Prosecution Counsel questions Eamon Dyas
		Bryant Heron for the prosecution calls Eamon Dyas, another archivist at NI
		Dyas was head archivist at NI until 2008, and was replaced by Mays on his retirement. After his retirement Dyas did consultancy work for NI
		24th November 08 to September 10 Dyas attended daily as part of his consultancy – dealing with the historic aspects of the NI archive.
		Dyas provided further consultancy work over various days in early 2011 at NI archives, specific project related to Australian legal case
		Dyas legal investigation in 20111 concerned the Sunday Times investigation into Thalidomide under @sirharryevans
		Dyas confirms seven years was the standard retention period for NI archive.
		Dyas explains that the ‘transfer list’ is required to itemise what the contents of all boxes filed in the NI archives contain
		Dyas says the written description of archive contents are prepared by those submitting material to archives
		Bryant Heron goes through the transfer list for Carter/Brooks from September 2009 – describing 7 boxes of Brooks/Wade notebooks
		Dyas says after the 7 year limit archives write to those who filed the material whether they want them destroyed or not
		Before destruction, Dyas said the boxes would be inspected for ‘historical material’ after no longer needed for books and records
		“We have no authority over records, they remain the property of the donor department,” says Eamon Dyas, former NI archivist
		Dyas said he has no personal recollection of Brooks or Carter storing personal material within the archive
		Dyas says that people did occasionally store personal effects in the archives: he recalls Times Editor Simon Jenkins asking for a favour
		Dyas does not recall making any requests to Brooks or Carter to remove boxes from archive
		Bryant Heron for the crown takes Dyas to an email from 04/07/11 addressed to him from Cheryl Carter: “HI Eamon I have cheque.. from Charlie”
		Dyas was not working at NI on the 4th July 2011. Further email from Carter on 7th July. Dyas did not receive as he was at home
	Counsel for Cheryl Carter cross examines Eamon Dyas
		Burke, counsel for Carter, asks Dyas about his police statement on Sept 12.
		Dyas was legally disqualified after his retirement from dealing with company record. After Nov 2008 he did agency work
		Dyas was at work when the alleged 7 boxes of Brooks’ notebooks were put into the archives by her PA, Cheryl Carter
		Dyas does not record filling in the office use only section. In response to Mays’ assertion he did: “He may have better memory than I do”
		Dyas says that he couldn’t have filled this in because he was no legally permitted to deal with records. He didn’t know who filled it in.
		Dyas confirms that there was a third person in the department, Mr Jensen, who could have filled in the office only use bit of transfer form
		Burke for Carter explores with Dyas what would happen at the review date – in the case of Brooks’ seven boxes that was 2016
		Burke refers back to Dyas’ police statement about requests for removing boxes offsite
		Dyas says one rare event non personal documentation was removed from archive was for the Bloody Sunday Inquiry
		Burke points out that Carter would have needed Nick Mays’ “express consent” to remove the seven boxes attributed to Brooks
		“I don’t think I done it,” says Dyas when asked by Burke if he had anything to do with the filling in of Carter’s transfer form
		This is the first time Dyas has seen one of these emails from Carter about the cheques from Charlie Brooks
		Dyas says “I haven’t a clue” about what these emails were about. “She’s presumably emailed the wrong person,” says Burke
		Dyas had no involvement in the movement of the seven boxes, he tells the Jury. Laidlaw for Brooks now follows up with his cross examination
		Dyas joined News International in 1990 working for 20 years in group archives and records department. He only met Brooks twice.
		“My contact with her was minimal,” says Dyas of his connections with Brooks. He cannot remember any specific contact with Cheryl Carter
	Further Prosecution questions to Eamon Dyas
		Bryant Heron re-examines Dyas over his phrase “we were custodians not owners….. NI quite unique having this records department. Voluntary”
		“Because they remained the property of donor dept, they could always request permanent removal… and this was always acceded to,” says Dyas
		Saunders asks if there’s any reason they could not require records back: “None whatsoever….but newspapers a fraught atmosphere.”
		Very rare that permanent removal requested, says Dyas – but archives would have to do it if so requested.
		Historical archivist Dyas asks if he can take police statement with him: “If you want to keep it historically,’ jokes Justice Saunders
Witness – Nick Carter (Son of Cheryl Carter)
	Prosecution Counsel questions Nick Carter
		Bryant Heron for the crown calls Nick Carter, Cheryl Carter’s son, as a witness
		Bryant Heron asks Nick Carter about events in July 8th 2011: he confirms he went to TM square at News International. He was admin assistant
		Carter tells the Jury that his mother asked him to take some boxes in next building, (Thomas More Square) TMS 2 – he was in TMS 3
		Carter says Gary Keegan was there, husband to Brooks’ other PA. The three of them went to the archive office in TMS 5
		The three of them went with a trolley to the archive office, collected boxes on trolley. Carter went with Keegan to basement.
		Nick Carter loaded the seven boxes into his car, and then drove the car back to his car park. Drove home at end of day, and unloaded at home
		Carter says he just plonked the stuff on the landing. He can’t remember if his mum and dad were at home.
		Nick Carter says he had no idea what was in the boxes, nor did he have any discussion about them. First time he’d ever removed archive boxes
		Nick Carter says he doesn’t know what was done with the boxes.
	Counsel for Cheryl Carter cross examines Nick Carter
		“I ask you question on behalf of your mother,” says Burke counsel for Carter. “You still live at home and have no intention to move”
		“I’m not so sure about that,” says Nick Carter about never leaving home. Some laughter in court.
		Carter started working for NI in his teens. He followed his mother’s column on fashion and make up. Samples would be sent to Cheryl.
		When Carter moved with Brooks to the 10th Floor, it was harder to receive make up samples, so Nick would take receipt of them
		“Taking items from work home to your mum’s house was something you did about once a week,” asserts Burke: “A regular occurence” Nick says
		Nick Carter says that various people would ask him to collect stuff from various parts of Thomas More Square.
		Nick Carter says it was fairly late in day when he picked up the 7 boxes with Gary Keegan and his mother Cheryl Carter.
		Nick Carter says he cannot assist Burke on what happened to the boxes. Police visited him in Nov 12, same day as Cheryl flying back from Oz
		Cheryl Carter phoned her son from Hong Kong: Nick says there was no prior discussion of what to say to the police, he confirms to Burke
		Nick Carter was not concerned he was getting his mother into trouble when it told police about removal of boxes: it was a regular occurence
		Burke is now going to ask Nick Carter about the family’s proposed emigration to Australia. The police alleged a job there was a reward.
		Nick Carter went with his dad to visit to Australia, when they decided to emigrate. Visas were agreed in 2007 for Mr and Mrs Carter and kids
		As of Feb 07 the family had all passed a medical and had a five year visa. They went on holiday that summer.
		The five year visa period expired in 2012: £1500 was paid in visa costs by the Carter family
		When Cheryl Carter moved to corporate in 2009, she didn’t like it there – had a period of illness – and then wanted to go back to the Sun
		With the closure of NOTW and Brooks’ resignation, Burke alleges, Cheryl Carter then decided to emigrate to Australia with two others
		Six tickets were bought for 22/01/12 for entire Carter family to emigrate to Australia and start a new life in Perth. Furniture shipped
		The whole family planned to leave 22/01/12. Cheryl Carter and husband travelled previously: she had an interview with Murdoch’s Perth Times
		Cheryl Carter arrested on 06/01/12 and passport taken: family emigrated waiting for her to join. But she was charged, got ill, they returned
		The next witnesses Mr and Mrs Keegan have got a flu bug or something, says Saunders. New evidence coming. Break till 1.50 pm
		Back at #hackingtrial: the crown calls DS Massey
Prosecution Evidence on Cheryl Carter
	Giving Evidence – Operation Sasha Detective DS John Massey
		DS John Massey of Operation Weeting verifies the ‘Book 101’ of the searches of Cheryl Carter’s premises in Billericay
		Bryant Heron points out that DS Massey was in charge of the search of Carter’s property on 25/11/12
		Attached to the Book 101 are notes by DC Hargreaves of responses by Cheryl Carter while at the premises.
		At the time of the police search Cheryl Carter was present with her husband Geoffrey/Jeffery: “No items were seized”
		The typed up version of DC Hargeaves notes of interview that afternoon.
	Cheryl Carter Statement to Police
		Carter’s statement claimed Dyas wrote several times insisting the boxes had to be moved while Brooks was a bootcamp.
		Brooks statement to police says most the contents of the boxes were hers – which she threw away. Some of Brooks’ stuff went to TMS 3
		Carter says she binned 30 notebooks of her own. “I thought it was Eamon but it could have been Nick Mays”
		A later statement from Carter was taken ‘not under caution’.
		Carter makes a standard declaration on the police statement – 7 pages “true to the best of my knowledge” and is signed by her C Carter
		Carter’s statement explains her role as Brooks’ PA for sixteen years and her beauty column. She claims Mays contacted her to remove boxes
		Carter’s statement says Mays called twice and she didn’t know where to store boxes, and never had time to pick them up.
		Carter says Brooks was away at a boot camp in July 2011 and so she had time to move the boxes.
		Carter says she called Gary – Rebekah’s driver – and her son, Nick. Her statement says she didn’t know about archiving in Enfield.
		Carter says she received seven boxes and three pictures of Brooks. She went through the boxes – three notebooks belonged to Brooks
		Everything else in the seven boxes belonged to her, claimed Carter in police statement: 30 spiral bound notebooks which she binned
		“No one ever told me I could not or should not get the boxes,” says Carter in her first police statement. “Brooks helped me” says Carter
		Carter claims Brooks helped her look for work in Australia in initial statement not under caution.
	Cheryl Carter Police Interview under caution
		The first Cheryl Carter interview under caution will now be played on tape in court (hope it’s audible): Jury has a transcript
		Tape recording is being played: police offer explains she is entitled to legal advice and can be stopped at any time
		Carter says she’s happy to continue with interview: the police officer cautions her: right remain silent but can be given in evidence
		Exact implications explained to Carter: she can remain completely silent but judge and jury may wonder why she doesn’t use this opportunity
		Carter says she understands the reason she was arrested but that she did tell the truth. Officer explains perverting the course of justice
		Destruction of evidence, lying to police can be construed perverting course of justice. Officer says Carter’s account differs from others
		Officer says he’ll ask Carter about her role in NOTW and relationship with Rebekah Brooks: “the floor is yours.” the officer says.
		Carter recollects Nick Mays called her and Deborah Keegan in April 2011 “downsizing archive and you need remove the boxes you have”
		Carter said she and Keegan laughed to themselves: “Where the fuck are we going to put this.” They knew they had to downsize
		“I couldn’t leave my desk because I was so busy…. but I knew Rebekah had a week’s holiday booked for when she was in a boot camp,” Carter
		On 8th of July Carter rang Mays to get boxes: “I didn’t do it for any other reason than that she (Brooks) wasn’t there for that week”
		Carter explains to police officer they couldn’t get messengers to come to the corporate 10th Floor, so that’s why she called her son to help
		Carter explains her son Nick often picked up messages. “I knew most of the stuff in the boxes was mines, collated from NOT and Sun”
		“I put them in conservatory and went through them box by box,” she only found some speeches and a diary of Brooks, and returned to office
		Carter says on taped interview that the stuff of hers was from her beauty college studies, revisions, design work and admin sheets
		Carter says she tore up the stuff in the boxes and didn’t shred them.
		She returned material to filing Brooks’ office, Carter was there when police sealed Brooks’ office but they never asked her about filing
		“The police could have asked at any point about that,” says Carter of Brooks’ office then sealed by the police. Carter had the filing
		Carter says the filing in her office was returned to Brooks.
		All the paperwork for Brooks was kept in Carter’s office. Police didn’t search. It went back to “the barn” says Carter on tape.
		Carter says she packed up 8-10 crates of Brooks’ files in front of Jane Viner in late July. NI hired a van.
		This was after the police search had taken place.
		Carter says all the personal stuff of Rebekah’s went to “my father in law’s garage” and then a few days later I took to Rebekah.
		Carter says this happened on the day that she left. Jane Viner is the NI facilities manager who oversaw the removal of Brooks’ files
		Carter says she did not explain to police she had the files. William Lewis and Simon Greenberg dealt with the police.
		“At no point did anyone ask me anything,” says Carter of this police search of Brooks’ offices (which missed all her files)
		Carter says she only recovered three pads of Brooks’ from the seven boxes in archive, which she put back in NI offices
		Carter says she put the diary in her section of the office: speeches and photographs in filing cabinet in front of her part of the office
		Carter says “I believe William Lewis had introduced me as her PA as I was making tea and coffee.” The layout made it clear
		“When Ross had a party there were some names of people she wanted to invite” says Carter of other Brooks materials in boxes
		Carter claims “100 per cent” it was someone in charge of archives who requested removal of boxes in April/May 2011
		Carter again says Mays claimed they were downsizing “and you need to come and remove some of the archive material”
		The only thing Carter thought strange about removal of archive material was “what are we going to do with it”
		“I knew it related to me,” says Carter of the seven boxes removed in July 8th 2011
		Carter says “could have been my old pads, could have been Rebekahs” in terms of archives that needed to be cleared
		Carter says she knows there “some framed shirt of Man City or West Ham”: Brooks’ memorabilia remained in office
		Carter says these items separate in her mind to the 7 boxes: “they were quite big… they went up to my pod… leaned on wall next to me”
		Carter says Brooks’ memorabilia stayed in her office/pod until she left in late July 2011
		Carter goes through the two calls from May – head archivist. She can’t recall the second call but it would have been about downsizing
		Carter says she and Deborah Keegan (Brooks other PA) “we laughed about it….”
		Carter says archiving was also for storage: “Forgive my language, but any old shit you had, you stuffed it down there.”
		Carter says she called Mays, probably on the day she collected them.
		Carter says she thinks she called Mays because they had the boxes by the afternoon.
		Carter describes the shoe-box size cardboard archive boxes
		“Big enough to fit a notebook in,” says Carter of NI storage boxes.
		Carter says she went down with Nick and Garry and loaded the boxes onto a trolley, loaded into Nick’s car, then she went back to her office
		DS Massey says of Mays it “seems likely he would have phone you to say they’re ready?”
		Carter says she wasn’t bothered about delivery: “no time pressure at all…. it could have been following weak as far as I was concerned”
		“I could have carried two boxes up…. there were only small little boxes… I could have done it two or three at a time.” Carter on archive
		Carter explains that Brooks’ boot camp holiday had been planned since May: 8th of July 2011 was part of the week Brooks was off
		Carter explains that Brooks’ bootcamp “Rebekah at home having a personal trainer to train her.”
		Carter says there was no real discussion with archivist Nick Mays: how are you? Fine. Not fine. Then he’d asked me to sign for it.
		First tape of Carter interview over: now a ten minute break for jury
		Back with the second part of Carter’s recorded police interview at the #hackingtrial
	Second Cheryl Carter Police Interview under caution
		DS Massey explains tape is recording again with DC Elliott and repeats caution
		DS Massey responds to allegations that Carter’s arrest has to been leaked to the BBC. Essex police revealed name
		Carter’s lawyer says police leak is “outrageous”: Cheryl Carter is upset on tape. “She’s only upset because you brought it up” says DS
		DS Massey says he does not want to discuss allegations of police leak of Carter’s arrest.
		Carter says she took possession of a number of boxes, and two large frames – a football shirt and a signed Sun picture
		Carter’s solicitor, Byrne, made the intervention complaining about BBC reports of Carter’s arrest in November 2011
		Carters says her son drove the boxes home in his mini, “they stayed there a couple of days. We transferred into conservatory.”
		Byrne complains the questions are “complete repetition”: DS Massey explains “it helps us to work out if you are telling the truth”
		Carter says there was no confusion with Nick Mays the archivist – no discussion or argument about what she was collecting
		Carter explains that the Sun and NOTW had ten editorial assistants who you could ask to get messages, coffees etc.
		Carter says “in corporate you had to do things yourself” but confirms you’d get facilities to do “heavy lifting”.
		“Ever since we were in corporate land,” Carter complains, PAs had to do more. “You couldn’t call… messengers all the time”
		Jane Viner was in charge of corporate facilities: Carter tells police she rang her son Nick and Garry to help after Nick Mays rang
		DS Massey refers to other material mentioned in the first interview: Brooks’ NOTW/Sun material boxed up in front of Jane Viner.
		Carter says Jane Viner “stood beside me to make sure I didn’t take it” of Brooks personal possessions, the business records left behind
		Contracts, budgets, marketing, finance and other company records of Brooks’ were left in her CEOs office according to Carter.
		“They’re all still there,” says Carter of Brooks’ business records. Jane Viner booked a van for the personal possessions
		These boxes were stored in the garage of Carter’s parents in law. A few days later Carter and her husband delivered to Brooks in Oxford.
		Carter says it was quite normal to visit her in London once a week – when she moved to Oxford 4 or 5 times a year
		Carter says “anything of the running of her home in Oxford” she might be requested by Brooks to attend
		“At no point did anyone say don’t do this… only when Rebekah left the company ‘you mustn’t shred this’,” says Carter
		“My from point of view I haven’t done anything wrong and don’t see why I’m here today…. I just removed my own stuff,” Carter to police
		Carter says the stuff she recovered from the archive boxes would have been put in the 8-10 boxes returned to Brooks, because personal
		Carter says she recognises “speeches” that came from archive, and “was put in a crate and taken to Oxford”.
		Carter said she looked at the speeches: one was a lecture, and another when someone left but can’t remember in detail
		Carter says the three pads and diary went to Oxford too. She can’t remember year of diary – 1999 or 2002.
		Carter remembers the spiral notebooks as being blue and standard to News International
		Carter says all the desk diaries she maintained for Brooks over 18 years were in NI offices when she left
		Carter says she left a week after Rebekah’s resignation (15th July 2011)
		DS Massey asks Carter how the notebooks would have been filed. “I would have put them down as Brooks’ because that was my office”
		Carter says she had no other archive material. “We scaled it down quietly when we moved to new building.”
		“I wouldn’t have at any time put it down as my notebook…. Nick Mays would have said ‘get rid of it’… it would have needed her name”
		Carter says she would have just discarded the reference numbers for the archive: “I probably would have chucked away a piece of paper”
		DS Massey produces some documents related to the boxes. Carter confirms her signature for 08/07/11 on seven receipts for the boxes
		“if they got an instruction from my office it would have to be pretty quick” Carter says of archives: Massey “Because of clout of CEO?” Yup
		DC Elliott reads out the note given to Mays that the notebooks were hers not Brooks’: she presumes this came from her
		Massey: “why are you telling him that level of detail? Why are you clarifying it yours.” Carter replies: “I don’t know.. can’t answer that.
		Carter’s lawyer Byrne suggests it’s because Carter is “very talkative” and then explains the police implication she’s lying about the boxes
		Byrne asks whether “it’s possible” Mays went through the boxes and checked the contents
		Byrne says “It’s taking a while” for the police to explain what Nick Mays has actually said. DC Massey says they will explain later
		Carter says her relationship with Brooks was “very good” – 16 years with her. “A good fair boss and she helped me with my beauty”
		Carter says Brooks helped her with her family getting Nick a job when he went “through a bad stage… lying in bed a lot”
		In tears Carter explains Brooks gave her son “a purpose… anyone who’s good to my children is a good person”
		Carter explains she worked at Mirror and knew Phil Hall (who became NOTW editor). She became a childminder for a year and Hall got her a job
		Carter says of Brooks “she was tough… she shouted a lot of the time.” A pause for five minutes as the tape is changed.
	Third Cheryl Carter Police Interview under caution
		The third police interview is now going to be read out in transcript rather than played out in tape
		Massey plays himself: Bryant Heron for the Crown plays Carter in this reading of a transcript
		Carter says PAs never sat in on journalistic meetings. Deborah Keegan only joined full time in in 2009
		“Just get on with people,” is how Carter explains her role as PA. Brooks said Brooks let her write a beauty column.
		Carter says she started on £23k and moved up to £66k when she worked as CEO executive PA
		News International offered to keep her on – but Carter went for redundancy payment to move to Australia.
		Carter says she met “Charlie Brooks not a lot – a different circle of friends” but she was friends with Ross Kemp, went to school with Kemp
		“A lovely boss, but a boss who wanted you to work hard. The Milly Dowler stuff… she wouldn’t have done. I wouldn’t have worked with her”
		Carter then talks about her role in the Sarah’s Law campaign at NOTW: she looked after Sara Payne’s kids when they came into office
		“I looked after her, I felt part of it,” says Carter of Sara Payne and the NOTW campaign.
		Carter is quizzed by police about Brooks’ colleagues : she replies”she got her money’s worth out of them… she was tough but she was fair.”
		Carter says she frequently keeps in contact with Brooks as her ‘friend’ – once a week on the phone, or three times over Christmas in London
		“For 19 years I’ve done her Christmas shopping,” says Carter of Brooks: she carried on doing so in the Christmas of 12/13
		The police then request Carter’s numbers – her landline extension at the Sun and TMS, her mobile number for 16 years.
		Carter says she kept same number but changed to Blackberry when she left NI. She gives NI and private email – offers computer to police
		Carter says the would allow her to superdrug product placement at the Sun “once every three months”
		Carter is asked about work for the Sunday Times in Perth. Her daughter would go to police academy. Her husband has a brand her wants to sell
		The police say they have an open mind. No one is accusing her. They have a suspicion. The CPS decide charges.
		However there are ‘discrepancies’ with CME/3 account of Nick Mays. Then reads statement of Nick Mays over the ‘urgency’ of the boxes
		“I can’t remember saying that to him,’ says Carter of urgency of the boxes – though previously she had said there was none
		The police point to their ‘concern’ about this discrepancy: “I do not know what to say, Sorry.” replies Carter
		“I would not know of anyone who would have told me to do that,” about the hurrying up of the removal of archive boxes.
		Mays statement is read out to Carter: “I would not have called Carter to ask for removal of boxes…. my role is reactive not proactive”
		“I would not call Cheryl Carter about the removal of seven boxes,” repeats Mays in his statement.
		The police re-read Mays’ statement about the storage of Brooks memorabilia during the move to Thomas More Square.
		“I was not aware of any request to remove seven boxes prior to Cheryl contact me,” Mays says of the archives.
		Police read out statement of other PA Deborah Keegan who explains Carter called her and asked for her husband’s help
		“He’s adamant he didn’t tell you to come and get the archive material” says police officer to Carter about Mays.
		Officer; “If it is you we think there is some sinister implication… because this the date after the NOTW announced it will be closing.”
		“What I’m imploring you to do is think long and hard about what happened,’ says interviewing police officer to Carter on discrepancies.
		Carter says she’s “saddened” Deborah Keegan cannot remember the Nick Mays phone call chasing her up on archived items.
		Carter denies there was any pressure to remove the boxes from someone else.
		Carter says she had no idea NOTW was closing until it was publicly announced: “I was close but not in that way,” says Carter of Brooks
		“I knew what was going on and that she was very upset… but I would not have been privy to that… whether she would resign” says Brooks PA
		“The timing raises a massive question mark,” says Police Officer to Carter
		Break till 10 a.m tomorrow

Note: All the defendants deny all the charges. The trial continues.

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